yakass

Err... no!

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While at work today I was asked a fairly controversial question inspired by assumption, which had I not thought was such an easy assumption to make, I would have been very offended by. That question was this: Is yakass.net a front for Maclean Outdoors. The answer, in case you were wondering - and I'm guessing some of you are - is no. Allow me to explain why it sometimes might look that way, and what I plan to do about it.

      

Yakass.net is officially supported by several Hobie kayak dealers. They are Maclean Outdoors (Nth NSW), Sunstate Hobie (QLD), Scott Lovig Hobie (Vic) and Hobie Sports (centrall NSW). This site is not a front for any of them. They are merely supporters of the site (and War on Fish) and the site's contributors. For example, Carl is sponsored by Sunstate Hobie and Holger is sponsored by Maclean Outdoors. Every now and then they might help with a little something for me to giveaway as a prize and they all link back to this site. But that's as far as it goes. No money has (or will) changed hands and there is no agreement in place for favourable content intended to bolster these dealers above others.

The only reason Maclean Outdoors gets mentioned as often as it does is because I work there by day, and we are constantly ordering in new products that we think will work well in kayak fishing scenarios. So if I spot a new product worth mentioning here (through the store or elsewhere) I write about it. If any other kayak dealer - be they a Hobie dealer or not, or yakass supporter or not - takes it upon themselves to inform me of a new product worth revealing to the yakass readers, I do it. Right now is a good time to point out that I do not get paid a comission of any kind in my job either.

To try and minimize the 'sell-out' perception, I think I might now refrain from mentioning where the product can be bought, and will instead wait for someone to ask the question in the attached comments.

Its worth noting also that the supporting dealers did not approach me - I hand-picked them and they are the only kayak dealers I have approached to be supporters of the site. The reason for that is that I have worked with all four of them, know them all pretty well, know how hard they work and most of all, that these are the kayak dealers (I'm aware of) that give back the most to the kayak fishing scene and get involved as often as they can. In short, they get behind the sport, so I get behind them.

Numerous times in the past - more so for yakabout rather than yakass - I have also been accused of running the site as an astro-turf attempt at viral marketing for Hobie as well. That to, I guess, is a fairly easy assumption to make, because not only has the content of both sites typically been highly favourable towards Hobie kayaks and various related products, their kayaks have been viewed over a quarter of a million times in my videos alone and the Hobie name gets mentioned here far more than any other brand. As easy as that sell-out assumption is to make, once again it's way off the mark.

The reason the content might look heavily Hobie favoured is because not only is that the brand of kayak I use, but also of most contributors and members, so thats what gets discussed most often. It's not really intentional - it's just the way it's evolved. That said, I'd love to be able to publish more content related to other brands but for that to happen effectively, yakass would need to recruit more contributors that use other brands and that is something I am open to.

The truth of the matter is that although both sites have done a fair bit to promote the Hobie brand just as much if not more so than the sport of kayak fishing itself (which is really the ultimate goal of the site), Hobie doesn't do a lot to promote the activities of this site and tends to keeps a bit of a 'safe' distance. In times past Hobie have given me a lot of support personally in various ways but that was almost exclusively related to my employment when I worked there, not my online exploits.

Whilst I'm sure that Hobie is quietly pleased that the vast majority of Hobie related content here does portray the products favourabily and helps users keep their yaks nicely maintained (less warranty claims for them), I think they're also fairly cautious about what is often spoken of here. Phrases like 'kayaking out wide, off shore' and 'great white shark' appear with some degree of frequency and these aren't terms that sit terribly well with a company that doesn't want to see any one injured or killed using their products, or have potential customers scared away from the sport, which these topics have potential to do. Sure - other topics come up regularly to, but it's those 'danger' topics that seem to get remembered. End of the day, however, these are topics relevant to coastal kayak fishing and I feel that it would be an injustice to the readership to neglect them.

Until open-ocean kayak fishing gains wider acceptence as a not-so-crazy sport and Hobie aren't quite so concerned with public perception (and who can blame them the way the shark topic gets beaten up by mainstream media), this niche market segment is more likely to be championed by companies such as Stealth (who pride themselves on building surf-ready kayaks) and Ocean Kayak (who's very name suggests ocean kayaking). Or to put that another way, if I wanted to be a sell-out, I wouldn't be using a Hobie kayak.

In closing I should also add that I have been asked why I haven't listed more kayak dealers in the Fishing Kayak Dealership directory and the answer to that is that within this directory I am only listing dealers who have a link back to this site somewhere within their own. I did email a bunch of kayak dealers to tell them this but a surprisingly small amount responded. I am now rethinking this strategy (which was somewhat governed by search engine optimization concerns as much as it was reader benefit) to either scrapping it completely (so others don't feel left out) or simply just adding links to every single dealer I am aware of. Let me sleep on that one...

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Discuss (22 posts)
Err... no!
Jun 23 2010 09:43:19
Josh I think you worry too much. If someone has an issue with this site, it is they themselves that have a problem. No you, not this site. Yes I use a hobie kayak too but I wouldn't care what brand of yak was mentioned here more often, nor would I care if I din't have a blog here. I stand by the following comment; "Yakass is an excelent website with mountains of useful information and one that I have learned much from, and I will continue to learn from. I am extremely grateful that this site exists"
Yes, I could be accused of being biased but, long story short, I don't care. It's their problem.
#2873
Err... no!
Jun 23 2010 09:53:27
I agree with what Dunebuggy says, I love the content of the site. Even though I also own a Hobie I did not think that this site was solely about hobies - it was about kayak fishing and open to any one to submit a comment. I haven't previously only because I am a lousy fishermand, but love kayaking.

Keep up the great work for all kayakers who fish.
#2875
Err... no!
Jun 23 2010 10:02:23
Just to balance things out then, wilderness systems, wilderness systems, wilderness systems, wilderness systems,wilderness systems there see now it's not all about Hobie's, not that it ever was, there's plenty of sites to go and get brand specific information if that's what you're after.

I've always come here for the stories. If people are that concerned there's this great option with the internet to "not visit the site" I teach it to my grade three's i'm sure the big adults of the world can decide if they think information is biased or not.

As much as I love teasing the local Hobie boys, I'd never once try and claim Hobie don't do a bloody brilliant job at putting together from both a design and a build perspective some great kayaks. They also are one of the few kayak companies to really push the advertising and get involved in the sport at a local and national level. I guess it is an easy assumption to make, you work there, you do this, but if anyone really thought about the time that went into the background work on a site like this and a fishing series they'd think better of it. When you start having more ad breaks and new tackle sales than you do fishing in your vids, then i'll start to worry
#2878
Re:Err... no!
Jun 23 2010 10:02:54
For me it was a shoo-in, when i chose to become a regular here. The site was centered about a) kayak-fishing, b) Hobie-kayaks, of which i, at that time, where in the process of deciding to buy or not...and finally c) contains a bunch of people that responds, and cares about the sport and the gear. Very few sites can do what Yakass.net serves up every minute, day and hour.

I dont think theres bias to blame here. I have come to know, that Josh would write the truth about ANY product - be it Hobie, Daiwa, Rapala and so on. Positive as well as negative - "if it sinks it sinks...and someone needs to do a better job!" could be the kinda line i have come to expect from this site.

Maybe you do worry a tad too much, Josh. But hey - one cares about the things that are close.
#2879
Re:Err... no!
Jun 23 2010 11:35:33
I think any regular viewer of this site would back everything youve said Josh . I also believe i know you fairly well and i admire both your ethics and passion !In saying that you can only commentate on what you know . If there was someone using other products that they thought were worthy of a mention here i would love to hear about it especially if that was going to help my kayak / fishing / camping adventures . Im only mentioning this as im fairly sure you are of the same view as would be most viewers . Its also worth noting how much i appreciate the massive work load you put into this site , all for the love of the sport . Please keep up the good work buddy .
#2880
Re:Err... no!
Jun 23 2010 12:32:00
Rog, I think anyone who knows me personally -especially if they've raised the subject of integrity - knows that above all else, I'm a man of principle. And I'm not at all ashamed that the majority of content here is Hobie focused - it's a product I love and happily endorse. And the supporters of yakass are ones I'd happily recommend, which is why I approached them. And I also totally get that the assumption could easily be made that the site is a viral attempt at online marketing. I confess this as someone who was employed to help run online viral marketing campaigns for a Taiwanese company, on several topics and spanning several years. It comes as no surprise to me that the same assumption would be made of this site, simply by virtue of its content. And even though yakabout/yakass is not and has never been a viral marketing campaign, I think I'm being conservative in suggesting the collective efforts of both sites thus far have inspired thousands of 1st-time buyers, numerous upgrades and countless accessories. The collective stats for both sites are pretty impressive, but I base most of what I just stated on feedback alone, which has been coming from around the world for a few years now.

Hobie AU has given me a lot of support personally over time, but I think the more 'on-the-edge' nature of some of the content here gives them cause for concern and from a marketing perspective, I get that. Perhaps if there was just a little less shark-related photos, videos and reports there'd be a little less disconnect, but as I said (when this once came up in discussion) we can only report on whats actually happening and publish whats being submitted.

I'm really not worrying about anything guys - it is what it is. Ultimately I'm just uncomfortable with anyone thinking this site is a front for any business or company. It is a completely independent entity that is constantly evolving. I do have a good relationship with Hobie and many of the AU dealer network, but it doesn't go any further than that. Those of you who know me know that is true. The rest of you will jst have to take it on faith
#2881
Err... no!
Jun 23 2010 13:01:06
It’s all been said Josh the saying( you can’t please everyone)well your pleasing the majority and I am one of them your doing a great job and it’s a excellent site. yakass.net/components/com_kunena/templat...h/emoticons/wink.png
#2883
Err... no!
Jun 23 2010 15:01:08
Well lets just think about the other side of this.... Josh, you are personally responsible for convincing me to spend thousands of dollars on a Hobie TI, trailer, and heaps of associated gear.

And I'm a fellow with a wife and two (expensive) kids! Have you no shame?

Then to make things worse, you show all those WoF videos, and make me want to tackle "stick 'n string" fishing as well??? How cruel are you? I just don't know how you can live with yourself.

Just in case anyone takes me seriously... DON'T.

As a programmer, and website developer myself, I totally understand the amount of effort required to maintain a website of this quality.

I truly hope that you can find a way to 'commercialise' it without losing its independent and unique flavour, if only for a wee supplementary income for all your time!

ps: hanging out for that sailing video you mentioned a while back
#2884
Err... no!
Jun 23 2010 15:09:04
pps: pls don't add links to all... just those you're comfortable with. Your recommendations, including links, carry weight. There are plenty of 'crap directory' sites with links to all and sundry already.
#2885
Re:Err... no!
Jun 24 2010 00:42:35
josh the effort you put into the kayaking fishing fraternity via your website, videos and articles has been appreciated by many including myself. keep up the good work and as it has been said before you can't please everyone so why try.

your enthusiasm and motivation have been big drivers for me and i will soon be in a better position to ramp up my contributions in the near future...ie it looks like the current time stealer (my job) is going to go or at least be modified so my time on the water will be in line with what i am used to.

as for hobie the company the web is full of positive examples of excellent customer service, ongoing R&D, community involvement and making us better toys. in this world of commercialised consumerism hobie as a company display some of the highest standards of consumer ethics i have seen including excellent warranty, free repairs/patches (when things don't go quite right) and a willingness of their distributors to go that extra mile for the client

btw please please don't show us how great how great the TI is...i simply can't afford one...
#2888
Err... no!
Jun 24 2010 03:13:07
Hi Josh, this industry tries our patience at the best of times, and its hard not to take comments personally. Being a retailer of other brands to Hobie, I still find the content of your forum interesting and informative, and comparsions to other brands. We will one day meet up and try the native water craft propel kayaks.
Being a business owner, which is also our passion for kayaking i find can be a grey cross over area, either customers respect us for our commitment to what we sell and after sales advise and service or it can be to our detriment.
Just keep up the good work.
#2890
Re:Err... no!
Jun 24 2010 06:21:33
Dont take things to personal josh ,
there is no such thing as stupid questions , only stupid people
#2891
Re:Err... no!
Jun 24 2010 07:50:44
Its not that I'm taking it personally - I'm not. Its more of a concern that the perception gets in the way of reality, and I'd rather visitors see this site for what it is. Integrity is pretty important to me and it's a quality that Internet readership appreciates, so if the wrong message is being sent, it's a bit of a worry. That goes for industry related companies almost as much as it does general readers. I made this post not to express personal gripes with the perception (I get why the perception exists) but to simply make a statement for the record showing where things really stand.

I totally get why anyone could make the assumption that this site is really just an astro-turf marketing campaign for Maclean Outdoors, Hobie, etc. And I totally get that companies like Hobie (and they're not alone) aren't so keen to help promote activities on the dangerous end of the scale and as far as kayak fishing goes, what some of us are doing and writing about here is potentially dangerous as it gets. If I was a decision maker at a kayak manufacturing company, I'd be a little wary of an excess in 'scary' content to I think. But overall as a small site run completely by volunteers, I reckon we do a pretty good job of balancing that by covering the topic of safety twice as much. We're not just saying 'hey, it can get hairy out here' but we're also saying 'and here's what you can do about it'.

Its worth noting also, that although the main thrust of this site is coastal kayak fishing (someone has got to cover it) that estuary based content comes up just as often. In fact, polls suggest that the #1 target fish by yakass members is the humble flatty. Not tuna, sharks, mackerel & marlin.

I've taken the supporter graphics off the front page (still on forums & WoF pages) to try and help minimize that kind of scrutiny. I'll also hold back from mentioning retailer suppliers of new products in actual articles (but will comment in related forum posts), which I think might help a bit. As for gaining a bit more confidence and respect from the corporate entities that benefit from what goes on here, perhaps time and shifting perceptions will achieve that.
#2892
Re:Err... no!
Jun 24 2010 09:21:52
Josh you really don't need to remove the sponsors logos from the front page. They need to be there. They belong there and I think its a detriment to the site that you have removed them.

I don't know who your trying to please by removing them but its your site and you can display sponsors.

I vote that you restore the logos to the front page. (I have no link to any of these places but feel they should have there logos displayed proudly).
#2893
Re:Err... no!
Jun 24 2010 10:41:27
Well, I also took them off the front page as part of my speeding-up-front-page rampage recently. I'm also planning to add some other graphics, so part of it is in balancing page speed, so there's that as well.
#2897
Re:Err... no!
Jun 24 2010 10:45:21
They have an average file size of 3-4kb. Removing them isn't going to affect speed at all. They make the front page look nice.

EDIT: Well its up to you Josh. I think the left side looks to bare now, if your going to add something else it might look ok. But don't remove stuff because you think your going to appear as just an "Advertising" site. That idea is just crazy.
#2898
Re:Err... no!
Jun 24 2010 13:22:52
Sponsors on the frontpage is all fine - and a nice reminder to who is actually worth dumping the cash at. In other words, i would happily let Josh recommend those to me (if i were living downthere in fishy-fishy-paradise, and needed to shop yak-related thingamajigs)

In other words, i would prostitute myself as much as to say, that i would happily accept a sponsorship uphere, promoting our beloved sport. *twinkle-twinkle-blink*
#2899
Err... no!
Jun 24 2010 14:48:21
Josh I think this is as good a place as any to tell you how much I appreciate what you are doing with this site. Without you I may not know that the rack and roll support leg even existed which has made loading / unloading my AI SO MUCH EASIER. Add to that the brillaint videos, stories etc. Mate keep up the good work. When I am up to my ears in shift work and challenging people I can ALWAYS get my kayak fishing fix on this site. OK I think I am addicted but hey it keeps me fit (kind of) and I just love my Hobie AI. So I say to hell with the naysayers
Regards Sue
#2900
Re:Err... no!
Jun 25 2010 01:47:28
Josh, if you're concerned about page load speed with many sponsor images, check out image maps. Whilst sponsor images may "have an average file size of 3-4kb", every separate image involves a round trip to the server.

It is much faster to load 1 x 32Kb image, than 8 x 4kb images. An image map simply puts many images into one larger image, then CSS styles specify the co-ordinates of the image map to display just the part you want.

Also, try to load the Google ads using JavaScript that runs after page load. That way, if there is a delay at the Google server, it won't hold up the rest of the page from loading.

One incredibly useful tool that I use is Firefox plus the Firebug add-in. One of the many things that Firebug does is to show you in real time how long every file required to display a web page is taking.
#2903
Err... no!
Jun 25 2010 14:18:29
Josh, its all been said by everyone else. I value your site enormously. Honestly recomending a product which you believe to be good for what it claims is to provide a valuable service those who might consider spending their hard earned cash on it. Advertising can be informative. Yakers arn not so feeble minded that they cant form their own judgements. I'm sure that those of us who regularly read your site trust your integrity and value your opinions. Strength to your pen, keep up the good work.
John
#2908
Err... no!
Aug 15 2010 03:44:21
So, this is my first post to this site, as such the opinion here might be indicative of how a person of average intelligence views it, that doesn’t already have a site loyalty (as so commonly develops when people commit their time to something, including web forums).

At first I did think this site was a front for Maclean Outdoors and Hobie. This impression lasted about 10 minutes; until I realised the breadth of information and the enthusiasm of the participants for what they were doing, and what they were using to do it with.

It took me two days to realise that Josh had a relationship with Maclean Outdoors, and I was led to the realisation when he was specifically recommended to me as a good and reputable dealer to approach for advice and pricing, from someone on another forum altogether where, incidentally, he doesn’t himself appear to be at all active.

My impression of the Hobie prevalence is that these products are pushed because several are unique in the market and the participants feel them to be particularly well suited to the sport as they practice it. To back off from this stance would be counter productive for new starters like myself, as there is nowhere else where this perspective is strongly aired, illustrated or supported.

I realised that the content was above board, reputable and driven by passion and enthusiasm, when a brief familiarity with this content demonstrated it to be of higher quality, greater breadth and more detail, than that easily found on any similar site. There is nothing that compares to the effort and enjoyment demonstrated in this site’s video and article sections. No other site offers the insight and dedication given by watching the WoF material.

If the equipment used by the majority of participants weren’t supported, or if sponsorship and links to businesses selling this equipment and related to the participants weren’t present, this would be more unusual and more deserving of scrutiny than having this content present. Its absence would be positively suspicious in this commercial world.

I’m a horrid jaded misanthropic old elitist cynic, and my enjoyment of the content here has persuaded me to spend some of my rare recreational time on the site. If someone else’s callow opinions are in discord, then surely they can assuage their feelings by just not looking.
#3459
Re:Err... no!
Aug 16 2010 03:46:43
If the equipment used by the majority of participants weren’t supported, or if sponsorship and links to businesses selling this equipment and related to the participants weren’t present, this would be more unusual and more deserving of scrutiny than having this content present. Its absence would be positively suspicious in this commercial world.

Thats a very astute observation there Daemon, and I totally agree. Thats when you'd know for sure that there was an astro-turf ethos that drives the site. Nope... this is grass roots alright - the real deal.

The sheer volume of Hobie related content has everything to do with the fact that the Hobie user base is huge, there is a fair bit to discuss (due to the unique nature of these yaks and how they can be used) and that Hobie themselves keep updating hulls, new models, parts, etc.

At this point it would be ridiculous having most contributors (especially me) focusing on paddle-kayak related content, as collectively our level of experience on the pedal kayaks is far higher, and to some degrees more worthy of being translated to consumable ext. In short, it pays to write about what you know (and not much else).

I am glad you observed that generally speaking at least, the standard of content and information offered is higher than just about anywhere else discussing the same topics. I also think this is true and I also think this is really important to note. Quality of content is an important issue to me, and any yakass contributor will tell you that (especially Carl & Holger, who have worked alongside me for some time).

Quality of content is so important in this scene because there is such a gargantuan lack of it. And the irony is that so many people want to discuss the related topics, usually inspired by their own enthusiasm. Many like to throw in their 2cents in forums and some others even like to start their own sites (like I did with yakabout, as an online journal to my east coast tour of 07). The problem is that often the 2cents is wrong, coming from a background devoid of hands-on experience and it often shows in the advice given. Its accepted as norm on forums, but is a bit harder to swallow in full websites, purely because of the potential to mislead.

Thats why I did not copy all the content from my old site here. I decided that a lot of the content was too old, out of date and written at a time when the writer (usually me) didn't know much better. There are quite a few sites out there (some of which have clearly been inspired by yakabout & yakass - one of which even used the same logos, template, almost identical video format, etc) being run by beginner users with really average, even incorrect information being offered, and I don't think thats a good thing at all, unless the whole theme of the site is 'follow my path from nooby to veteran' that is made pretty clear. Fortunately some of the sites I'm talking about here have already been taken down and I suspect a few of the other 'me-to' sites will eventually fold as well. The better quality sites will keep on keeping on while others drop off sooner or later (most of them sooner), those trends driven by readers (or lacktherof) just as much as content creators.

There's no money in doing this (perhaps I should try before making that statement though), so it takes real enthusiasm to keep going, and real good content to keep readers coming back. The former is not so hard to find, but putting oneself in a position to be able to offer the latter is much harder than most might think. The quality of the content I create owes much to working in the industry, at manufacturer and retail sales level (with several experienced dealers) coupled with a wealth of experience in the field, combined with previous experience as a writer and web master, and having time enough to wrap it all together. It's a combination that works well.

The day is coming - perhaps not so far away - where I have to make a decision between maintaining full-time work and my efforts on this site, because time restraints are constantly getting in the way of my ambitions these days. If I ever do get enough free time to chase my ambitions proper, there'll be no stopping me!
#3475

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Our valuable member Josh has been with us since Monday, 23 November 2009.

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